Mat and Tylin Cancelled?!?
The ad nauseam debate!
The Mat and Tylin relationship in ‘A Crown of Swords’ has been a contentious issue in the Wheel of Time fandom for quite a few years. It usually starts off with someone mentioning how awful it is and then someone comes along and claims “It wasn’t rape” and well, the shit hits the fan shortly thereafter…
Smarter people than Narg have weighed in on this topic, so usually Narg doesn’t say much, but recently some humans have decided to tell others what they think Narg thinks about the whole thing. Narg doesn’t appreciate people telling falsehoods about him, so this post will be an attempt for Narg to express what he really thinks about what happened, Narg’s interpretation of Robert Jordan’s intent, whether or not it was good writing and if it should be “cancelled”.
Ok, so lets get the easy part out of the way first. Was it Rape?
Yes it was. Robert Jordan said it was rape and the text supports the basic definition of rape(not giving consent or being compelled to give consent).
The only documented record we have of Jordan’s views on the subject is a paraphrased report from a signing way back in 1996:
RJ wrote the Mat/Tylin scenario as a humorous role-reversal thing. His editor, and wife, thought it was a good discussion of sexual harassment and rape with comic undertones. She liked it because it dealt with very serious issues in a humorous way. She seemed to think it would be a good way to explain to men/boys what this can be like for women/girls, showing the fear, etc.
To Narg’s knowledge, no one has said that the above is in anyway a gross misrepresentation of What RJ or Harriet thought about the issue. So given that, Narg has no reason to doubt the veracity of it.
The “comic” part is what a lot of people take issue with and where some readers don’t see the rape or choose to not see it.
Everyone will interpret what they read differently. No ones brain is wired the exact same way and people will interpret things based on there own experiences and knowledge. People shouldn’t be judged for how they first read it. If however it is explained to them and they still persist in not seeing anything wrong with what Tylin did…well Narg wouldn’t let that person date his children…
Robert Jordan’s Intent and Interpretations
It’s been a long time since Narg first read ‘A Crown of Swords’, so Narg would be lying if he said he remembered how he first interpreted the realtionship between Mat and Tylin, but let Narg say this clearly…
RAPE IS NOT FUNNY
Does Narg think Robert Jordan or Harriet think rape is funny, no. Is there a humourous element to the writing, yes. That’s born out by not only them saying that, but by readers interpretations. You dont have to agree with how it is used, but you can’t say it’s not there.
I've been laughed at. I've been called LUCKY. I've been called a liar. I've been ignored. People change the subject. Never once has anyone cared. Every time this subject comes up I relive it and the reactions (or lack there of) of the people I trusted enough to tell.
Over the years, Narg has seen a few occassions where men who have suffered abuse from women have weighed in on the issue of how Jordan wrote what happened. They have said the way Mat felt and the reactions of others, pretty much matched their own experiences.
To me this was pretty obvious when I read it as it mirrored a lot of my own internal thoughts for a long while. It was nice knowing that RJ was willing to write about something that let me feel validated in my own experiences
As Narg has said, smarter people than a Trolloc have weighed in on this issue. Here is a long snippet from an analysis by Zalack over on r/WoT:
One other thing to keep in mind with Jordan's writing is that he was absolutely steadfast in maintaining the unreliable narrator and letting things play out the way they would in real life without the book itself moralizing about right and wrong. All moralizing is done by the characters, and often we are meant to realize that what the characters are presenting as "right" is wrong. This is especially obvious in matters of fact when we know something a character is saying with 100% confidence is 100% wrong, but Jordan often does the same thing with moral lessons as well, where something a character is presenting as morally right is meant to be taken as morally wrong.
Jordan wrote his story the way he felt it would actually unfold, and left it up to you, the reader, to apply your own moral lens without being told by the book how to feel. Character's moral sensibilities are strictly bound by their culture, upbringing, and personality. No character ever breaks the fourth wall and applies our moral sensibilities to a situation for the sake of teaching a lesson to the audience.
That means a couple things for this arc:
The prose itself never casts Tylin as a rapist, since none of our protagonists see it that way. Mat is a man so they find Tylin's "pursuit" of him amusing, the way Jordan believes they actually would given their culture.
Mat does not have the language to describe or process what is happening to him. We clearly see he knows on some level it's wrong but his inner monologue is his normal, brash, humorous, self. Mat lies to himself about a lot of things and this is no exception.
However, there are a couple things that I think clearly demonstrate that RJ saw her actions as wrong.
First: Mat's inner dialog is really hard to read, he's constantly oscillating between confusion, despair, and cracking jokes. It's so clear he doesn't have the ability to process what is happening to him, and this makes his sections gut-wrenching. I think it's why so many people have a visceral reaction to the arc. A sample:
“It isn’t natural,” he burst out, yanking the pipestem from between his teeth. “I’m the one who’s supposed to do the chasing!” [Tylin's] astonished eyes surely mirrored his own. Had Tylin been a tavern maid who smiled the right way, he might have tried his luck—well, if the tavern maid lacked a son who liked poking holes in people—but he was the one who chased. He had just never thought of it that way before. He had never had the need to, before.
Tylin began laughing, shaking her head and wiping at her eyes with her fingers. “Oh, pigeon. I do keep forgetting. You are in Ebou Dar, now. I left a little present for you in the sitting room.” She patted his foot through the sheet. “Eat well today. You are going to need your strength.”
Mat put a hand over his eyes and tried very hard not to weep. When he uncovered them, she was gone.
...
There was also a red silk purse holding twenty gold crowns and a note that smelled of flowers.
I would have bought you an earring, piglet, but I noticed your ear is not pierced. Have it done, and buy yourself something nice.
He nearly wept again. He gave women presents. The world was standing on its head! Piglet? Oh, Light! After a minute, he did take the mask; she owed him that much, for his coat alone.
The crying is what really drives it home. If this was meant to truly be played for laughs Mat would not have such a painful inner monologue. Instead, Jordan is creating a dissonance between the humorous tone the other characters approach this arc with and Mat's inner emotional distress. It feels like Jordan asking us to consider the inner life of characters in other media that are the butt of rape jokes. Should we really be laughing at them? Or are we the palace maids to those characters' Mat?
There's also some points to make around Mat trying to figure out why he feels this way and reaching for reasons like "I'm the one who chases" rather than "she raped me" being a really great illustration of victims who can't even articulate why something was a violation in the aftermath of a traumatic experience and the gaslighting that happens to them, but let's move on to another character who laughs at the victim.
Second: when Mat tells Elayne what's happening, Elayne laughs at him initially, but then Mat, in a moment of selflessness, offers her the foxhead medallion to protect her from the Gohlam. She pauses, reassesses him, and:
I. . . .” That faint blush returned to her cheeks. “I am sorry I laughed at you.” She cleared her throat, looking away. “Sometimes I forget my duty to my subjects. You are a worthy subject, Matrim Cauthon. I will see that Nynaeve understands the right of . . . of you and Tylin. Perhaps we can help.”
“No,” he spluttered. “I mean, yes. I mean. . . . That is. . . . Oh, kiss a flaming goat if I know what I mean. I almost wish you didn’t know the truth.
...
Aloud, she said, “I understand.” Sounding just as if she did. “Come along, now, Mat. We can’t waste time standing in one spot.” Gaping, he watched her lift skirts and cloak to make her way along the landing. She understood? She understood, and not one acid little comment, not one cutting remark?
This moment is narrated through Mat's eyes, so we don't know exactly what Elayne is thinking, but we DO know that Elayne is often depicted as having the highest EQ / empathy in the series. She plays peacemaker between her friends, cares for animals, and is the glue that holds her, Min and Aviendha together as friends rather than rivals through the tight bonds she consciously forms with both. She makes friends easily and is fiercely protective of them.
She also has zero issues with calling Mat on his bullshit.
So it's telling that she seems to recognize that this is affecting Mat deeply, and respect that even if she doesn't understand it. She may not go as far as realizing what is actually happening, and it may take her a moment to get there, but we can infer from her that she recognizes on some level that Mat is in real distress over it, and reacts to that, even offering to help him resolve it. This moment really stood out to me on my first read through.
There's a bunch of other things to dissect here, especially around the way victim-blaming and slut-shaming is interwoven into this scene (Elayne implies Mat was asking for it and got a taste of his own medicine, even though Mat is never shown flirting with someone who does not show interest), but let's move on to the next point.
Third: Tylin is killed by the Gholam.
Now, this may not seem like a point in the book's favor. Tylin's death seems to be played as a tragedy. When a character is killed for karmic reasons, most books wink at the reader a little, with some line of narration or dialog emphasizing that they got what was coming to them.
This is not the case with Tylin. Robert Jordan writes Mat's reaction authentically, and Mat has come to care for his abuser, as often happens in the real world. Her death is "played" as tragedy because that's how our narrator feels about it.
Mat did not realize his knees had given way until he found himself sitting on the floor with his head buzzing. He could hear her voice. You’ll get your head cut off yet if you’re not careful, piglet, and I wouldn’t like that. Setalle leaned forward on the narrow bed to press a hand against his cheek in commiseration.
...
[Tuon] was watching him, a neutral expression on her face. “Did you care for Tylin so deeply?” she said in a cautious voice.
“Yes. No. Burn me, I liked her!” Turning away, he scrubbed fingers through his hair, pushing the cap off. He had never been so glad to get away from a woman in his life, but this…! “And I left her tied up and gagged so she couldn’t even call for help, easy prey for the gholam,” he said bitterly. “It was looking for me. Don’t shake your head. Thom. You know it as well as I do.”
But I contend that this death is one of Karmic justice. The Gholam only finds Tylin because it is looking for Mat, and his scent is all over her room as a result of her actions, so her immoral actions directly lead to her death
Further, she is killed by the Gholam while tied up and helpless, a perfect mirror of the situations she forces on Mat with her pink ribbons. Mat even remarks that she never would have stood a chance and couldn't call for help, which has symmetry with the absolute political and social power Tylin had over him. We even have scenes earlier on when he realizes the whole palace is complicit in serving him up to Tylin and there's no one he can turn to for help.
Such symmetry between death and actions is typical of characters being punished for their transgressions, but Jordan's style is not to moralize about it directly. Instead he presents to us the character's authentic reactions and thoughts. The symbolism and meaning is there for us to pick up on, but the unreliable narrator lenses it as a senseless killing of an innocent woman.
Jordan wants to make us uncomfortable, but he's not interested in handing us the answer to why on a silver platter. It's up to us to use our own reasoning and morals to suss that out.
Narg pretty much agrees with all of that.
Should it be cancelled?
There is a current trend where people want to cancel everything and anything that makes them feel uncomfortable. If you do that, how does one learn and grow? Good literature shouldn’t just be entertaining, it should also be formative. Whether or not Jordan got it wrong or right, really doesn’t matter that much. The fact that it gets people talking about the issue, is what matters. It’s a “teachable moment’ and that should be a good thing no matter whether you think it was a misstep by Jordan or if he nailed it.
Personally, Narg thinks he nailed it and that’s why so many people find it uncomfortable.
This is a phenomenal treatment of this disturbing portion of Mat's story. I'm re-reading A Crown Of Swords now (for the first time since I first read the book 25 years ago) and came looking for a thoughtful discussion of this issue... and here's your post. Thanks!